Posts by Black Man

63

The Idiocy of the Universal Sovreignty Issue

by Black Man in

does anyone else have trouble processing the logic behind the wts issue of universal sovreignty?

why empower satan to make claims and give him the time and circumstances to prove his claims?

why have a bet between 2 people decide the fate of the universe?

Black Man

Damn, JT that is profound...................

40

Did Any Of You Ever Believe In The Explanations Of JW Prophecy?

by minimus in

jw
friends

as a born and raised jw, i was taught that not only did we have the truth but we also had the keys to understanding of bible prophecy.

i was able to explain the gentile times timetable, the reason for 1914,etc.

but there came a time when i really came to appreciate that i had no real foundation for these "truths".

Yep, I believed it all.....hook, line and sinker. I could articulate all of it very well and throw in the powers of persuasion to sound so convincing. It wasn't until I got to Bethel, that I began to question things, when I actually saw WHO ARE WRITING THESE ARTICLES AND HAVE THIS DIRECT PIPE-LINE TO GOD. All these cats coming up with this new light, were some of the most dysfunctional, unbalanced, socially infantile, idiosyncratic human beings. The questions began at that point for me.

I asked one of the brothers in writing about how much a stretch it is to apply the seven trumpet-blasts in Revelation fulfilled by some obscure assemblies in 1922. His reply was, well that's the frame-work that they're stuck with from the previous "regime", so they just run with it.

63

The Idiocy of the Universal Sovreignty Issue

by Black Man in

does anyone else have trouble processing the logic behind the wts issue of universal sovreignty?

why empower satan to make claims and give him the time and circumstances to prove his claims?

why have a bet between 2 people decide the fate of the universe?

Black Man

OICU8it2:

You bring up an interesting point. "God gives you instincts and then chastiese you for following them. It almost appears he's not involved anymore. Yet he says a sparrow doesn't fall but that he is aware of it. Makes me feel so small."

This is what has always confounded me. If he wants us to love him so much, why does he make it so hard and confusing? It makes no sense.

Noumenon:

I'm not a bible hater or God hater as you so ignorantly assert. But I do think it's high-time to admit FACTS here and that is what I was taught in the WTS and what many were taught IN and OUT of the WTS has little logic and common sense. Instead of condemning everyone for having no faith, this would've been a nice opportunity for you to articulate some kind of sensical logic to this discussion. I believe that there is a spirit world, and that there is a God. I DON'T BELIEVE that we have anywhere near the FULL STORY as to why things are the way they are. The bible's explanation reads like a third-rate "Lord of the Rings" tale. I'd be happy to take you up on your bet. Most posters on here are current and/or former JW's. Get a clue.

SixofNine:

Dig your daughter's take on da' whole thing.

Dannybear:

Good points. That another thing that's always ticked me off and that's there are only 2 choices. It DISHONORS having this "gift" of free-will that we're supposed to have. That whole thing is insulting.

Yerusalyim:

Yep, good point. God does seem extremely petty. What made Satan so important?

City Fan:

Well said.

funkyderek:

Couldn't say it any better. Great response!

63

The Idiocy of the Universal Sovreignty Issue

by Black Man in

does anyone else have trouble processing the logic behind the wts issue of universal sovreignty?

why empower satan to make claims and give him the time and circumstances to prove his claims?

why have a bet between 2 people decide the fate of the universe?

Black Man

Greven: You pose a good question. We've always been taught that the issue will be settled and that Satan will have been the only person to formally raise that issue. But what will stop someone else from raising it? The whole thing is one dumb-cruel joke. It really does wonder for your self-esteem knowing you're just the pawn of a bet.

Saint Satan: Well said.

Noumenon: I dig your sincerity, but the point is, the premise of the whole issue is not based on logic. I always figured that once the "new scrolls" that the WTS is always talkin' about would be revealed, then we would get a credible answer to the whole thing. I don't question whether God exists, but I do question the validity of the sovreignty theology. I don't crave independence from God, I crave to understand him/her. If any other parent did what God did, they would get the book thrown at them by a court of law and deemed an unworthy parent. If God really cares about mankind so deeply, it sure isn't evident in the way in which the sovreignty issue was handled. I think peeps have gone along with the whole thing because someone decided to declare it was right.

The Bible hasn't given a SATISFACTORY answer to that. My question is: where is the answer buried?

Happyout: I so needed to hear you say that. Good points!

run dont walk: That's the thing that always bugged me. Satan and the demons seem to be the ones who get something out of this. At least they make it to the PARADISE, while most everyone else gets deep-sixed at Armageddon. And another thing is why does Satan get get shown so much respect by getting the chance to RAISE ISSUES? If I wanted to raise a sovreignty issue, God wouldn't give a f**k?

Mr Kim: yeah....the vibes are alive.

Funky Derek: The "Trading Places" analogy is on-point as are your comments. There is major doubt cast on the bible's validity by this demented bedtime story. I thought the whole Job story was disturbing. Job did nothing to deserve that treatment, and its always been explained away by saying that God rewarded him with more riches and a new set of kids, but again why go through that, and was there really solace in the fact that Job got a new set of kids. Wouldn't he have missed his original offspring that got killed? There's so much NON-SENSICAL thinking in those nursery rhymes that it's giving me a headache thinking about it.

"Rational thought has begun to replace primitive superstition" - I dig that quote Derek.

Religions always explain away that things are beyond our understanding because God's thoughts are higher than ours, but if we're made in his image, his decisions should reflect some type of reasonable logic and that whole sovreignty issue is far from it.

Berylblue: Interesting thoughts. And your illustration really hits the point home.

Thunder Rider: This is what's always bothered me. Why cater to the whims of Satan just because he had an attitude problem. There certainly seems to be an ego-problem going on with God and Satan. And you raise a good point: "How can you love someone and allow them to suffer for your good name." Excellent point.

19

carl kunde dies at silverdome

by kilroy2 in

my old partner daryl kunde's father died at the silverdome assembly last week.

it seem's kind of ironic but about 11 years ago when i was still going to the assemblys, we were at the silver dome and 8 old people collapsed from the heat.

[there is not air in the dome] this made me mad and i vented to daryl the monday after the assembly.

Black Man

oh, there's "air" at the Silverdome, it just happens to be 90 degree air that circulates around the dome.............

57

The Society's worst release

by Nosferatu in

jw
friends

what, in your opinion, is the worst thing that the society has released?

(book / tract / video / audio cassette)

Black Man

School Brochure & Your Youth - Getting the Best Out of It: I personally want to hold a public book burning with those 2 pubs. Singlehandedly, skewed the lives of millions of jw-youth, who are just now recovering from the after-effects.

63

The Idiocy of the Universal Sovreignty Issue

by Black Man in

does anyone else have trouble processing the logic behind the wts issue of universal sovreignty?

why empower satan to make claims and give him the time and circumstances to prove his claims?

why have a bet between 2 people decide the fate of the universe?

Black Man

Hamas:

That's true, but why do so many people fall for it? That story has soooo many pot-holes and pitfalls for it to really be taken seriously.

Jessica R:

Yeah, it seems as if the whole situation is the result of one big ego-trip and we're just pawns. And you're right, I can't draw close to someone so quirky and illogical.

Gopher:

WTS always goes to Revelation to talk about how God will just wipe everything away, but nothing can wipe away thousands of years of pain on billions of people. To attribute this mindset to God sure makes him seem aloof, naive, and out-of-touch with the human experience. It's so true, what you said......if it was really about a sovreignty issue, it would've been settled by now. In my opinion, God should've showed his SOVREIGNTY back then, now that would've been impressive. All we have left with now is a non-sensical story fit for the funny pages.

63

The Idiocy of the Universal Sovreignty Issue

by Black Man in

does anyone else have trouble processing the logic behind the wts issue of universal sovreignty?

why empower satan to make claims and give him the time and circumstances to prove his claims?

why have a bet between 2 people decide the fate of the universe?

Black Man

Does anyone else have trouble processing the logic behind the WTS issue of universal sovreignty? Why empower Satan to make claims and give him the time and circumstances to prove his claims? Why have a bet between 2 people decide the fate of the universe? Why let the fate of the universe be determined by munchin' on some fruit? Why allow billions of people suffer in agony and die. Why let the world be racked by war, strife, corruption, hunger, bad economy, crime, etc.? To any sensible person the issue of universal sovreignty could've been settled right at the time of the uprising...........by using a little...well....sovreignty. Either this God is one of the most quirky, illogical persons ever or we just don't have the full story. The only person that seems to get any love out of the whole thing is SATAN.

Even early on, this whole story never seemed logical and yet it is at the crux of the WTS teachings because it makes christ's ransom sacrifice necessary. But the whole story is UNNECESSARY. Thoughts?

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